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	<title>Comments on: Epithets</title>
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	<description>A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment</description>
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		<title>By: Miserere</title>
		<link>http://enticingthelight.com/2009/05/28/epithets/comment-page-1/#comment-3662</link>
		<dc:creator>Miserere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Nov 2010 14:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Happens to me all the time  :-D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happens to me all the time  <img src='http://enticingthelight.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Avi</title>
		<link>http://enticingthelight.com/2009/05/28/epithets/comment-page-1/#comment-3661</link>
		<dc:creator>Avi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Nov 2010 06:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enticingthelight.wordpress.com/?p=2830#comment-3661</guid>
		<description>Real recent occurence:  While I was shooting a small bird with a Bigma on my Pentax in a botanic garden, my wife was approached by two young women with a p&amp;s who asked if she could take a snap of them.  She suggested they ask me, and one said to me, &quot;You must be a good photographer, you have such a serious-looking camera.&quot;  

I took their picture anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Real recent occurence:  While I was shooting a small bird with a Bigma on my Pentax in a botanic garden, my wife was approached by two young women with a p&amp;s who asked if she could take a snap of them.  She suggested they ask me, and one said to me, &#8220;You must be a good photographer, you have such a serious-looking camera.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I took their picture anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: icelava</title>
		<link>http://enticingthelight.com/2009/05/28/epithets/comment-page-1/#comment-907</link>
		<dc:creator>icelava</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 14:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enticingthelight.wordpress.com/?p=2830#comment-907</guid>
		<description>Then the next level you are associating those terms with is the skill level. That still is quite unnecessary. Anybody can be a footballer or a cyclist or an inline skater. Now, whether they are good or expert in their activity or craft is _a_different_question_ ;-)

By disassociating profession or skill I do not struggle through any of the mental conflict this post is potraying.

Again, context is key. What do i work as? What is my profession? i am a software developer, an IT consultant. If I were not, I would not answer so. Yet at the same time I do a lot of other things and I will also answer i am a World of Warcraft player, i am an inline skater, etc. Because those are the activities i do and close to my heart, what i practise regularly, spend much of my time on. These form what is my _personality_ , defines my _identity_, who I am. (watch the presentation http://identity20.com/media/OSCON2005/)

Since i do not draw or play badminton often, I _would_not_ call myself a drawer or a badminton player then. But, at the point of time when i pick up the pencil and start sketching on paper, or accompany friends on a workout in the badminton court, I become that via virtue of activity at that moment. Whether I am good at it or choose to make it a regular hobby is another matter. If I discontinue the activity, then I essentially discontinue the title; because they are not close to my heart and I do not care.

What do you call all those people walking around the golf course and smacking the ball with their clubs? If they are not called golfers i do not know what to call them. Now, are they _regular_ golfers? I do not know. Can they qualify for PGA tournament, I do not know.

&quot;Hey! This year&#039;s D &amp; D is asking for any musicians in the company to form a band and play during the party.&quot;

&quot;Cool! I haven&#039;t played in awhile. would love to pick up my rusting guitar before it really falls apart.&quot;

&quot;Fantastic. Since Henry only knows electric guitar, Karen can you be the bassist?&quot;

&quot;Fine by me.&quot;

&quot;Lovely. Nicholas I know you play the keyboard better but you are the only drummer we know in the company. Have to make do with _me_ as keyboardist. We&#039;ll play simple songs so you know how much i suck LOL&quot;

&quot;So.... who&#039;s gonna be our vocalist?&quot;

&quot;Our CEO loves karaoke....&quot;

Now let me highlight once more my point of reference is the dictionary to tell me whether a term is tied to activity or occupation. Many terms may add &quot;especially one who is professional, skilled, etc&quot; but the keyword is &quot;especially&quot; and not &quot;only&quot;.

Am i a photographer? yes i am. a _beginner_ photographer. If I am being coached by someone i could label myself a student photographer. There is nothing to suggest i am claiming expert level, or even to to claim I am &quot;serious&quot;. If I feel the need to boast then I&#039;d probably describe myself a &quot;damn good photographer who knows how to capture beautiful artistic photos&quot;, because that would be entirely explicit and remove all doubts for everybody. Now at the same time, I know I am not a _casual_ photographer, which is probably the phrase you are looking for folks who own cameras just to capture moments without bothering what they are doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then the next level you are associating those terms with is the skill level. That still is quite unnecessary. Anybody can be a footballer or a cyclist or an inline skater. Now, whether they are good or expert in their activity or craft is _a_different_question_ <img src='http://enticingthelight.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>By disassociating profession or skill I do not struggle through any of the mental conflict this post is potraying.</p>
<p>Again, context is key. What do i work as? What is my profession? i am a software developer, an IT consultant. If I were not, I would not answer so. Yet at the same time I do a lot of other things and I will also answer i am a World of Warcraft player, i am an inline skater, etc. Because those are the activities i do and close to my heart, what i practise regularly, spend much of my time on. These form what is my _personality_ , defines my _identity_, who I am. (watch the presentation <a href="http://identity20.com/media/OSCON2005/" rel="nofollow">http://identity20.com/media/OSCON2005/</a>)</p>
<p>Since i do not draw or play badminton often, I _would_not_ call myself a drawer or a badminton player then. But, at the point of time when i pick up the pencil and start sketching on paper, or accompany friends on a workout in the badminton court, I become that via virtue of activity at that moment. Whether I am good at it or choose to make it a regular hobby is another matter. If I discontinue the activity, then I essentially discontinue the title; because they are not close to my heart and I do not care.</p>
<p>What do you call all those people walking around the golf course and smacking the ball with their clubs? If they are not called golfers i do not know what to call them. Now, are they _regular_ golfers? I do not know. Can they qualify for PGA tournament, I do not know.</p>
<p>&#8220;Hey! This year&#8217;s D &amp; D is asking for any musicians in the company to form a band and play during the party.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Cool! I haven&#8217;t played in awhile. would love to pick up my rusting guitar before it really falls apart.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Fantastic. Since Henry only knows electric guitar, Karen can you be the bassist?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Fine by me.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Lovely. Nicholas I know you play the keyboard better but you are the only drummer we know in the company. Have to make do with _me_ as keyboardist. We&#8217;ll play simple songs so you know how much i suck LOL&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;So&#8230;. who&#8217;s gonna be our vocalist?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Our CEO loves karaoke&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now let me highlight once more my point of reference is the dictionary to tell me whether a term is tied to activity or occupation. Many terms may add &#8220;especially one who is professional, skilled, etc&#8221; but the keyword is &#8220;especially&#8221; and not &#8220;only&#8221;.</p>
<p>Am i a photographer? yes i am. a _beginner_ photographer. If I am being coached by someone i could label myself a student photographer. There is nothing to suggest i am claiming expert level, or even to to claim I am &#8220;serious&#8221;. If I feel the need to boast then I&#8217;d probably describe myself a &#8220;damn good photographer who knows how to capture beautiful artistic photos&#8221;, because that would be entirely explicit and remove all doubts for everybody. Now at the same time, I know I am not a _casual_ photographer, which is probably the phrase you are looking for folks who own cameras just to capture moments without bothering what they are doing.</p>
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		<title>By: Miserere</title>
		<link>http://enticingthelight.com/2009/05/28/epithets/comment-page-1/#comment-906</link>
		<dc:creator>Miserere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 20:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enticingthelight.wordpress.com/?p=2830#comment-906</guid>
		<description>Icelava wrote &lt;em&gt;You appear to want to tie [those terms] to the _professional_ level.&lt;/em&gt;

No! Not at all! Like I said in an earlier comment to you: &lt;em&gt;And none of this has anything to do with being paid, by the way&lt;/em&gt;. From your example, I would not immediately call the players on the pitch &quot;footballers&quot;. They are playing football, yes, but they&#039;re &lt;em&gt;not necessarily&lt;/em&gt; footballers in my eyes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Icelava wrote <em>You appear to want to tie [those terms] to the _professional_ level.</em></p>
<p>No! Not at all! Like I said in an earlier comment to you: <em>And none of this has anything to do with being paid, by the way</em>. From your example, I would not immediately call the players on the pitch &#8220;footballers&#8221;. They are playing football, yes, but they&#8217;re <em>not necessarily</em> footballers in my eyes.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://enticingthelight.com/2009/05/28/epithets/comment-page-1/#comment-905</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 21:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That&#039;s the best news I&#039;ve heard all week, Rose!  Now that I have an official, published photo credit I figure I can stop worrying about the afterlife (or is there a photographers entrance to...you know:, the *other* place as well?  ;~)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s the best news I&#8217;ve heard all week, Rose!  Now that I have an official, published photo credit I figure I can stop worrying about the afterlife (or is there a photographers entrance to&#8230;you know:, the *other* place as well?  ;~)</p>
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		<title>By: icelava</title>
		<link>http://enticingthelight.com/2009/05/28/epithets/comment-page-1/#comment-904</link>
		<dc:creator>icelava</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 18:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enticingthelight.wordpress.com/?p=2830#comment-904</guid>
		<description>In addition, if you strictly reserve terms only for those who carry them out as a profession, then the typical habit is to prefix &quot;amateur&quot; or &quot;hobbyist&quot; so not to confuse others into believing one is actually working in that industry.

I am a hobbyist photographer. I am a hobbyist inline skater. I am a hobbyist snowboarder. I am a hobbyist computer gamer. I am a hobbyist bike rider. I am a hobbyist drawer. I am a hobbyist wakeboarder. I am a hobbyist manga drawer.

There, i listed some things i like to do, and differentiated myself from those who are truly professional at each activity and industry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In addition, if you strictly reserve terms only for those who carry them out as a profession, then the typical habit is to prefix &#8220;amateur&#8221; or &#8220;hobbyist&#8221; so not to confuse others into believing one is actually working in that industry.</p>
<p>I am a hobbyist photographer. I am a hobbyist inline skater. I am a hobbyist snowboarder. I am a hobbyist computer gamer. I am a hobbyist bike rider. I am a hobbyist drawer. I am a hobbyist wakeboarder. I am a hobbyist manga drawer.</p>
<p>There, i listed some things i like to do, and differentiated myself from those who are truly professional at each activity and industry.</p>
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		<title>By: icelava</title>
		<link>http://enticingthelight.com/2009/05/28/epithets/comment-page-1/#comment-903</link>
		<dc:creator>icelava</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 17:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enticingthelight.wordpress.com/?p=2830#comment-903</guid>
		<description>I definitely do not agree with your perception on those terms. I largely base my understanding on the dictionary definitions and tied most of those terms to the _activity_ level. You appear to want to tie them to the _professional_ level.

I guess it stems from your perception of a conversation scenario?

&quot;what do you do for a living?&quot;

&quot;i am a fisherman.&quot;

From that angle, certainly yes one cannot answer such unless s/he really works in the fishing business.

However, from the angle of the observer, watching a casual football match happening at the neighbourhood field. It is absolutely ok to call them footballers because that is exactly what they are doing at the moment - playing football.

I think context plays an important factor when or when not to apply a term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely do not agree with your perception on those terms. I largely base my understanding on the dictionary definitions and tied most of those terms to the _activity_ level. You appear to want to tie them to the _professional_ level.</p>
<p>I guess it stems from your perception of a conversation scenario?</p>
<p>&#8220;what do you do for a living?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;i am a fisherman.&#8221;</p>
<p>From that angle, certainly yes one cannot answer such unless s/he really works in the fishing business.</p>
<p>However, from the angle of the observer, watching a casual football match happening at the neighbourhood field. It is absolutely ok to call them footballers because that is exactly what they are doing at the moment &#8211; playing football.</p>
<p>I think context plays an important factor when or when not to apply a term.</p>
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		<title>By: Yvon</title>
		<link>http://enticingthelight.com/2009/05/28/epithets/comment-page-1/#comment-902</link>
		<dc:creator>Yvon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 20:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enticingthelight.wordpress.com/?p=2830#comment-902</guid>
		<description>You know how we are, &quot;French Canadians&quot;,  we don&#039;t always understand English the way we should!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know how we are, &#8220;French Canadians&#8221;,  we don&#8217;t always understand English the way we should!</p>
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		<title>By: RoseyD</title>
		<link>http://enticingthelight.com/2009/05/28/epithets/comment-page-1/#comment-901</link>
		<dc:creator>RoseyD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 15:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enticingthelight.wordpress.com/?p=2830#comment-901</guid>
		<description>Yes, Davey, Me boy, there is!  :)  You&#039;re allowed to bring all your cameras, lenses with you - and there&#039;s tripods waiting right beyond those pearley gates. :D  By taking that special &#039;photographers&#039; only&#039; door - you&#039;ll be expected to take loads of pictures, and you&#039;ll have plenty of time to keep up with post-processing.  Thank goodness!

Bet you&#039;re excited about it now...  almost makes you want to go?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Davey, Me boy, there is!  <img src='http://enticingthelight.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   You&#8217;re allowed to bring all your cameras, lenses with you &#8211; and there&#8217;s tripods waiting right beyond those pearley gates. <img src='http://enticingthelight.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />   By taking that special &#8216;photographers&#8217; only&#8217; door &#8211; you&#8217;ll be expected to take loads of pictures, and you&#8217;ll have plenty of time to keep up with post-processing.  Thank goodness!</p>
<p>Bet you&#8217;re excited about it now&#8230;  almost makes you want to go?</p>
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		<title>By: Miserere</title>
		<link>http://enticingthelight.com/2009/05/28/epithets/comment-page-1/#comment-900</link>
		<dc:creator>Miserere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 02:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enticingthelight.wordpress.com/?p=2830#comment-900</guid>
		<description>Christopher, was every photograph in the book taken by a photographer...or were some just taken by a person with a camera...?

I don&#039;t think &quot;we have an inflated image of ourselves&quot; (and by &quot;we&quot;, you mean &quot;me&quot;, I presume  :)); rather I think the world has a deflated view of certain artists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christopher, was every photograph in the book taken by a photographer&#8230;or were some just taken by a person with a camera&#8230;?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think &#8220;we have an inflated image of ourselves&#8221; (and by &#8220;we&#8221;, you mean &#8220;me&#8221;, I presume  <img src='http://enticingthelight.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> ); rather I think the world has a deflated view of certain artists.</p>
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